χρήση CCD χωρίς την ανάγκη υπολογιστή

[βολιωτης]

Μόλις είδα αυτό το νέο μοντέλο.

 

Διαφημίζεται ως μία CCD η οποία μπορεί να δουλέψει χωρίς να είναι συνδεδεμένη σε υπολογιστή.

 

https://www.astromarket.org/astrofotografie/ccd-cameras---gekoeld/astrel-instruments/ast8300---filterwheel---wifi---touchscreen

[roryt]

Ο QHY ελεγε να βγαλει κατι τετοιο εδω και 5 χρονια Μοιαζει σαν να εχουν βαλει μια ταμπλετα (android ; Linux ; καποιο windows ; ) πανω του, κατι απολυτα εφικτο.

 

Αλλα για να πειστω θελω minimum :

 

1) προγραμμα οδηγησης με τον αντιστοιχο χειρισμο ευαισθητης καμερας οδηγησης

2) δυνατοτητα για dithering

3) δυνατοτητα για autofocus (focusmax κλπ)

4) δυνατοτητα για plate solving

5) να ξερω οτι τα 8G θα αντεξουν τα καρε μου και δεν θα γεμισουν

6) διαθεσιμο software (εκτος αν μου αρεσει να σκαλιζω)

7) δυνατοτητα επιλογης hardware να μην με κλειδωνεις σε ενα vendor

 

αν δεν τα εχει ολα αυτα θα αναγκαστω να εχω λαπτοπ, οποτε δωρο-αδωρο. Ο ιδιος λογος που το επιχειρημα "παρε μια πειραγμενη DSLR για να ειναι φορητο το συστημα" δεν παιζει.

[βολιωτης]

Κι εγώ σκέφτηκα πόσο φορήτο στα αλήθεια για γίνει το σύστημα με μια τέτοια κάμερα.

 

Για το λογισμικό δε ξέρω κάτι να πω, αλλά διάβασα ότι μπορεί να συνδεθεί και USB stick ή σκληρός δίσκος.

 

Όλο και κάποιος(π.χ. κάποιο περιοδικό) δε θα κάνει μια δοκιμή;

 

Θα δείξει. Καλό φαίνεται ως τίτλος αλλά μέχρι εκεί προς το παρόν.

 

 

Ίδωμεν

[astrovox]

Προσωπικά δε βρίσκω λόγο να είναι η οθόνη ενωμένη με τη CCD από τη στιγμή που υποστηρίζει wifi και λέει πως μπορείς να κάνεις το ίδιο με ένα tablet. Γιατί να ακουμπάω μια οθόνη αφής που βρίσκεται πάνω στην κάμερα και να κινούμαι συνεχώς δίπλα στο τηλεσκόπιο πιθανώς μεταφέροντας δονήσεις είτε από την οθόνη είτε από το τρίποδο;

 

Δε διευκρινίζεται τι λειτουργικό τρέχει μέσα ο μίνι υπολογιστής. Για να μη λέει υποθέτω πως θα είναι κάποια έκδοση android/linux. Οι περισσότεροι ξέρουμε πως δυστυχώς πολλά προγράμματα βγαίνουν μόνο για windows. Ίσως υπάρχει ευκαιρία στο άμεσο μέλλον τώρα που η Microsoft δίνει δωρεάν τα Windows 8.1 with Bing σε κατασκευαστές φτηνών συστημάτων.

 

Μέχρι τότε, θεωρώ ως ωραία εξέλιξη στο θέμα της φορητότητας (συμπεριλαμβανομένων των διαφόρων πηγών ενέργεια) πως είναι τα νέα υπερφορητά ultrabook που είναι και ισχυρά, τρέχουν όλα τα προγράμματα και έχουν αυτονομία πολλών ωρών. Γλιτώνω τις τεράστιες μπαταρίες που ήθελαν τα παλιά laptop, μικρότερος όγκος και βάρος.

[stelios_STI]

Το βρισκω χρησιμο μονο σε ενα υπερφορητο σεταπ, οπως μια πολυ ελαφρια βαση με camera lens, που ισως να μην χρειαστει οδηγηση (αναλογα το στοχο και τις απαιτησεις).

Για ολα τα αλλα ειναι οπως τα λεει ο Γιαννης (roryt)

[Andrea Ricciardi]

Hi everybody,

I'm Andrea Ricciardi from Astrel Instruments, I will be happy to answer any question regarding the AST8300 CCD camera. Unfortunately I can't speak Greek and google translator is not that good

 

@roryt:

1) driver with the relevant control sensitive comparator camera driving

Sorry, I can't understand, google translator was way off here

 

2) possibility for dithering

For autoguiding, we developed a version of the Lin_guider open source software (http://sourceforge.net/projects/linguider) running on the camera PC: you can connect a commercial guider directly to one of the camera's USB ports. The application supports dithering through communication with the camera exposure planner app

 

3) possibility for autofocus (focusmax etc.)

The camera runs an INDI server, which is the Linux equivalent of ASCOM. Many devices can be controlled using INDI (http://indilib.org/devices.html), we're currently developing the GUI for autofocus, it will be ready in a month.

 

4) possibility for plate solving

We run on camera the Charon open source astrometry application: we use it in the camera sw we developed for the ESO LPC project, an instrument using our AST8300 that will be mounted on the VLT in May. Given a good approximation of the center field coordinates, it performs plate solving in less than 20 seconds. We plan to use it for developing an app performing automatic n-stars mount alignment. The camera has already an app onboard that interfaces with the mount to perform goto find of objects.

Anyway, if framing is your issue, I think you will appreciate the 10x5 binning liveview, which shows faint nebulas on the display in a matter of seconds...much more funny than a planetarium sw!

 

5) to know that the 8G will endure my frame, and will not fill

If not, just put a pendrive or an external HD on the USB port

 

6) availability of software (unless liked scratching)

Software is available and completely open source: you're free to add new functionality to the camera

 

7) Ability to choose hardware not with locks in a vendor

Here again, I can't understand the translator...

 

 

@astrovox:

You're perfectly ok using your smartphone or tablet: all you need is a VNC client application, we tested several under Android, Windows phone and Apple. Note that these applications only provides a wifi remote desktop connection with the camera: all the software always run on the camera, the smartphone/tablet is only a terminal showing the camera desktop/applications.

The touch display is there because it doesn't get out of charge like your phone could do after many hours in the cold. When operated with the included stylus, the touch is very light and I operated it while autoguiding without disturbing the tracking,

The camera runs Linux. All the sw needed to operate the camera is developed and guaranteed by us: your camera is ready to use out of the box with all the functionality described. Moreover, people willing to customize or develop new applications are free and encouraged to do it!

I would like to add that we're about to release also an wifi ASCOM driver for the camera, so it could be used like a "normal" PC-slave camera with all the convenience of wifi connection.

 

For any doubt, don't hesitate to ask (but not in Greek, please

 

Andrea

[roryt]

Andrea,

 

Glad you took time to answer our questions. Let me translate my points and my concerns

 

1) guiding software with drivers for sensitive guiding cameras

2) ability for dithering

3) autofocus ability (which focusers you will support and what drivers will be available) ?

4) plate solving ability (your answer is interesting)

5) enough hard disk capacity (you already answered to this)

6) available capturing (and not only) software - except of the case that like to hack around

7) ability to avoid hardware vendor lock - I like to choose from many vendors and products, not stack on a few

 

So I said, I need the above, otherwise I'll need a laptop anyway.

 

First of all for more than 20 years I use Linux and open source (user, supporter, developer, administrator, contributor etc). So I'm very happy that this project is based on open source - unfortunately this is rare on this hobby.

 

Nevertheless my concerns have not been answered. There are not so many cameras supported under Linux (driver-wise). So how "you can connect a commercial guider directly to one of the camera's USB ports" ? drivers for commercial autoguiders cameras are very rare - I know from personal experience, I was co-developer on the linuxdsi sourceforge project. Only specific vendors support Linux and many times for only specific (and most of the times obsolete) products.

 

Most of your answers regarding software depend on INDI. Unfortunately support for INDI is limited, especially for commercial products - to be frank, it is not mature enough as ASCOM under windows.

 

linguider ? IMHO not to the level of PHD or MaximDL. I'm happy to see that supports so many cameras (even though my beloved DSI I Pro is not included), but there is a lot of work to be done to reach the level of the others.

 

Also you said "Software is available and completely open source: you're free to add new functionality to the camera". Yes, but I was not talking about the software of the camera. I was talking for all the software needed for a good AP session. Again, limited under my beloved OS. And frankly, DYI is not always an option, needs expertise and free time - neither is readily available from everyone.

 

And here comes the vendor lock concern: with all the above, it is very easy to be stacked with specific vendors and specific models.

 

So, my sad conclusion is, if I can not have the flexibility offered with a Windows laptop I will limit my AP session, so the "portability" argument becomes irrelevant and I prefer to stack with the laptop.

[Andrea Ricciardi]

Hi roryt,

sorry for the delay, but the notification email went to spam, don't know why...

I'm very happy to see somebody sharing our love for open source: I think that a lot of work has been done to fill the gap between Windows and Linux regarding sw support: did you have a look to Ekos? It looks like a very good single program for AP sessions: I do have in mind to try to port it to our platform.

I think INDI is going to grow a lot: just this morning I've been contacted by one of the INDI developers asking if we have an SDK to develop an INDI driver for the AST8300. There's a growing community behind INDI (note: community, not vendors...) willing to enlarge the compatible devices.

 

So, to answer your question: some devices lacks support on the AST8300, but our mission is to work on enlarging this support to all relevant equipment, and we're confident that the open source community will do the rest.

 

As for the guider, I used lin_guider for a while with no problems: it is fast and accurate, with most common autoguiders supported. It supports dithering as well. I made a port of it to run on our camera (basically just a resize of the main windows of the GUI), and it looks very stable.

As for your DSI I PRO, it is not supported under lin_guider (last release includes DSI2PRO) so, as you are an expert, it's time you contribute a driver for it!

 

Jokes apart, I'm interested in understanding what you mean, step by step, with a "good AP session": at the moment, with my mount and guider, using only the camera, without a PC, I'm able to:

 

- use an app for starting and monitoring cooling regulation

- use the focus app to display a star on an highly magnified subframe at 3 fps with FWHM calculation and profile graph (soon to come autofocus support)

- point an object from NGC, IC or MESSIER catalog using an app interfacing to the mount goto

- frame the object with an extremely sensitive 10x5 binning liveview app

- locate, calibrate and track a guide star in the autoguider camera using lin_guider

- use the take photos app to schedule a serie of exposures for up to all the 7 available filters (like: first 10x600sec bin 1x1 in luminance, then 10x300sec bin2x2 in red ...), optionally with dithering

- review the photos in the fits viewer app.

I will post some videos soon on our Facebook page.

 

I think most necessary steps are already available and probably the missing ones are on our schedule

 

Bottomline: of course we're not willing to convince anyone to change methodology. Anyone can use the AST8300 with a Windows pc using the (almost ready) ASCOM driver: standalone capability is only one of the main points of our camera, but there's more to it, as you can see from the specifications.

 

Andrea